NPR’s Mary Louise Kelly speaks to Michael Waldman, president of the Brennan Center for Justice, about recent moves from the Trump administration and why he thinks they amount to “epic corruption in plain sight.”
MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
In recent days, the news has been filled with some eyebrow-raising choices by the Trump administration.
(SOUNDBITE OF MONTAGE)
LEILA FADEL, HOST:
President Trump is defending a new nearly $1.8 billion fund designed to help people he says were unfairly targeted by the justice system.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #1: A new financial disclosure form show President Trump made thousands of stock trades during the first few months of the year, including companies affected by his policies.
UNIDENTIFIED PERSON #2: The U.S. is, quote, “forever barred and precluded” from examining or prosecuting Trump, his sons and the Trump organization’s current tax issues.
KELLY: All right. So a sampling of a few of the matters making headlines. The leader of one prominent nonpartisan think tank says these moves amount to, quote, “epic corruption in plain sight.” Michael Waldman is President and CEO of the Brennan Center for Justice. Michael Waldman, welcome.
MICHAEL WALDMAN: Great to be with you.
KELLY: So you have written a piece with that headline, “Epic Corruption In Plain Sight.” I want to start with the development just of the last week or so, what the Trump administration is calling an antiweaponization fund, what critics of this plan are calling a slush fund. This is the nearly $1.8 billion that will go to Trump allies, go to people who believe they were victims of former President Biden’s Justice Department. First, just make the case. Why is this epic corruption in plain sight as you see it?
WALDMAN: It appears to be a really extraordinary manipulation of the system. President Trump sued the federal government. He then had his own Justice Department settle the suit, and this fund is part of the settlement. And it, therefore, bypasses Congress and all the other ways in which money is supposed to be decided. It’s rather unprecedented in its scope, and it has led to a tremendous reaction, including from members of the president’s own party.
KELLY: Lawmakers are criticizing the fund, including members of President Trump’s party. They have just delayed a vote on ICE funding, also for the president’s ballroom project, but this is expressing their frustration. So we are seeing Republican lawmakers rebelling against the president over this. Is that an adequate check?
WALDMAN: Well, it’s noteworthy because there’s been so little pushback on so much. And Congress, under the Constitution, is given the power and the duty to set spending decisions. And so, one of the things that’s really fishy about this is it evades that by relying on an already existing ability to pay people in the course of litigation. Congress should speak out, should vote on it. And this is, seemingly, for a number of political figures of the president’s own party, for whatever reason, this seems to be one line too far…
KELLY: This is the bridge too far.
WALDMAN: …The straw that broke the camel’s back.
KELLY: Yeah.
WALDMAN: But that’s only part of it.
KELLY: Speaking of litigation, we know that two police officers who were at the Capitol during the January 6 insurrection have filed a lawsuit challenging this fund. What do you say to folks who say, hey, that’s a check. Let the courts decide?
WALDMAN: The question always with this kind of thing is, do the police officers have standing? Will they be able to bring the case in a way that a court will hear it? We’ll have to see whether a court rules that way.
KELLY: Let me ask about another development, which is stock trades. And specifically, President Trump’s recent disclosures detailing his stock trades. What did we learn?
WALDMAN: In the period where there was a big fight over whether Netflix or Paramount – the president’s allies – would take over Warner Bros., the president bought stock in all three companies. And the president did not put his assets in a blind trust. He gave them to his kids. Eric Trump, among others, went with him to China with people from companies that benefited from the China-U.S. negotiations. And the Trump family says, well, we didn’t make these trades. These were done by third-party financial advisors, but we actually have no idea, and there’s no reason necessarily to trust that.
Part of the problem is that the laws actually are very loose when it comes to a president. There are all kinds of laws that apply to other members of the government, all kinds of laws that apply to members of Congress but that do not apply to the president, and that’s one of the things that needs to be fixed.
KELLY: To those who might be listening and saying, hey, this is a smart business decision, and this is President Trump and his family advantaging loopholes. It’s the system that’s the problem, not President Trump.
WALDMAN: It’s both, in the sense that the system needs to be strengthened. There need to be laws passed and rules changed to strengthen these protections. We, as taxpayers, need to know that decisions are being made because the person making the decisions thinks they’re the right thing to do, not because they think it’s going to increase their net worth a little bit and maybe no one will notice.
KELLY: The Brennan Center put out a report, I believe earlier this year, that points to nine solutions for political corruption. Is there – are there one or two in particular you would point us to that feel practical at this moment to address the concerns you’re laying out?
WALDMAN: So we need to address the huge new role for big money in American politics with legislation to end dark money, with, I would say, constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United, which is the Supreme Court decision that really ushered in so much of the big money in politics. There are things that need to be done to address what we’re seeing now, which is kind of an old-school corruption of people in power taking advantage for their own benefit.
KELLY: Do you see political will in Congress to do any of what you have just laid out?
WALDMAN: I think if voters care enough, if the public calls for it loudly enough, you can be surprised by what can happen.
KELLY: Michael Waldman, president of the Brennan Center. That is a nonpartisan legal think tank. Thank you very much.
WALDMAN: Thank you.
KELLY: We did reach out to the White House for comment on Waldman’s remarks that President Trump’s actions amount to corruption in plain sight. Spokesperson Anna Kelly wrote, in part, quote, “President Trump only acts in the best interests of the American public, which is why they overwhelmingly reelected him to this office. There are no conflicts of interest.”
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