Ohio’s Governor says that his state should end the death penalty. NPR’s Scott Simon talks to Gov. Mike DeWine, a Republican, about why he changed his mind on a practice he once supported.
SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
More than 40 years ago, a young state senator cosponsored a bill that reinstated the death penalty in Ohio. That state senator is now the governor of Ohio, and this week, Governor Mike DeWine called for his state to end the death penalty. Governor DeWine joins us now from the statehouse in Columbus, Ohio. Thank you so much for being with us.
MIKE DEWINE: Scott, good to be with you. Thank you very much.
SIMON: Of course, you’re in the final months of your second term. What led to your change of heart or mind?
DEWINE: My justification for voting for the death penalty and, really, kind of my rationale was that I felt that it was, in some cases, a deterrent, and it would save lives. It would cause some individuals not to actually commit the crime. And what really, I think, changed my mind is we went back and looked at the statistics in Ohio, and Ohio is not dissimilar from other states. But of the last 10 people to be executed in the state of Ohio, the average – the mean – the average wait time was over two decades, so it was 21 years. And it seems to me that when you look at that, it’s just hard to make the case today that it is, in fact, a deterrent.
SIMON: Governor DeWine, I have to ask. You’re just a few months left in your second and final term of office as governor of Ohio. If you felt this strongly, why didn’t you do it before?
DEWINE: It’s a kind of a cumulative process, I think. A governor has to deal with a lot of issues. I could have gone the entire time, I suppose, without talking about it. But I think I’m in a unique position based upon my past experience as a prosecutor in judiciary committees and dealing with this really, you know, for almost five decades now. And that’s why I wanted to speak out.
SIMON: Could being governor and having to sign your name to a death warrant focus the mind?
DEWINE: Well, I would think it would focus anybody’s mind. You know, I’ve talked to former governors, and it certainly should focus your mind. I also wanted to share with the public what some of these individuals who presided over the executions have told me, and it’s something I think we don’t think much about. But everybody who I have talked to tells me about the impact – the psychological impact that has on those that we task with carrying out an execution. It is a huge burden that they carry with them and will carry with them the rest of their lives.
SIMON: I wonder, Governor – and maybe you’ve had to have this conversation sometimes back when you were a prosecutor – what do you say to those families who think that justice is not really served until the person who took the life of their loved one has their life taken, too, in an orderly and judicious process?
DEWINE: There certainly are people who feel that way. None of us, who have not experienced what they’ve experienced, have any idea what they went through and what they continued to go through. Anecdotally, I know that there are survivors, victims, family members who believe that that person should be executed. I also know that there are people who speak out and say no. I’m not in favor of capital punishment. My loved one would not have been in favor of this. The one thing they all say is the 20-year wait is agonizing. It is frustrating. No one likes that uncertainty.
SIMON: You’ve had some open disagreements with President Trump over Haitian immigration, January 6 attack, the 2020 election. What do you make of the hold he seems to have on the Republican Party?
DEWINE: Well, I think it’s no secret. I mean, if you look at the elections, certainly in primaries, the president is extremely strong, and the person he endorses is in all likelihood going to be the nominee. And that’s what the facts are. You know, as governor – I said this when President Biden was present. I said when President Trump was president the first time, and now, again, this time – is important for a governor to have a good working relationship with the White House. It doesn’t mean I always agree and doesn’t mean I won’t speak out when I see something that I think is wrong. But that relationship, I think, is important for a governor to have.
SIMON: And let me return to the question of the death penalty, finally. In the months you have remaining in office, you’re going to commute the sentences of the people on death row?
DEWINE: I said the other day I was not going to talk about that this week, and, you know, I wanted to focus, frankly, on the rationale I have for making the decision and saying I don’t think Ohio should have a death penalty. And I want the legislature to repeal that law, so one thing at a time. And, you know, I didn’t want to, frankly, step on the story, bluntly. You know, I thought a lot about what I was going to say, and I want people to, you know, have the opportunity to hear what I was going to say, whether you agreed with me or not. And I wanted to, frankly, start a conversation in Ohio, which I think I have.
SIMON: If you leave office without commuting their sentences, could you live with that?
DEWINE: Well, I’m just not going to get into that today (laughter). I’m usually pretty open about answering questions, but I’m – this week, I’m focused on what – you know, what I wrote, what I said, and happy to answer questions about, you know, that rationale.
SIMON: Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio. Thanks so much for being with us, sir.
DEWINE: Good to be with you. Appreciate it. Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF STAVROS’ “THE GINNING”)
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